RELIGION

Aight, after reading all the crap over at R6 I figured we could use a little discussion of the sort over here.


I guess we'll start it from the top...

Code:


'GOD vs SCIENCE'

An atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.

              'You're a Christian, aren't you, son?'

              'Yes sir,' the student says.

              'So you believe in God?'

              'Absolutely. '

              'Is God good?'

              'Sure! God's good.'

              'Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?'

              'Yes'

              'Are you good or evil?'

              'The Bible says I'm evil..'


The professor grins knowingly.

'Aha! The Bible!

He considers for a moment.

'Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you
can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?'

'Yes sir, I would.'

'So you're good...!'

'I wouldn't say that.'

'But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't.'

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. 'He doesn't,
does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he
prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Can you answer
that one?'

The student remains silent.


'No, you can't, can you?' the professor says. He takes a sip of water
from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax. 'Let's
start again, young fella. Is God good?'

'Er..yes,' the student says.

'Is Satan good?'

The student doesn't hesitate on this one. 'No.'

'Then where does Satan come from?'

The student falters. 'From God'

'That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?'

'Yes, sir.'

'Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?'

’Yes'

'So who created evil?' The professor continued, 'If God created
everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to
the principle that our works define who we are, then is evil.'

Again, the student has no answer.

'Is there sickness?  Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?'

The student squirms on his feet. 'Yes.'

'So who created them?'

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats  his  question.


'Who created them?' There is still no answer.


Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized.

'Tell me,' he continues onto another student.

'Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?'

The student's voice betrays him and cracks..

'Yes,  professor, I do.'

The professor stops pacing.

'Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?'

 'No sir. I've never seen Him.'
           
 'Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?'

 'No, sir, I have not.'

 'Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your
Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God
for that matter?'

 'No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't.'

 'Yet you still believe in him?'

 'Yes'


 'According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable
protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that,
son?'

 'Nothing,' the student replies. 'I only have my faith.'

 'Yes, faith,' the professor repeats. 'And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith.'

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of his own.

'Professor, is there such thing as heat?'

' Yes'.

'And is there such a thing as cold?'

'Yes, son, there's cold too.'

'No sir, there isn't.'

The professor turns to face the student ,obviously  interested.

The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to exlain.


'You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat,
mega-heat,unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we
don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit down to 458 degrees below
zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There
is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than
the lowest -458 degrees. Every body or object is susceptible to study
when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or
matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total
absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe
the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in
thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat,
sir, just the absence of it.'

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.

'What about darkness, professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?'

'Yes,' the professor replies without hesitation. 'What is night if it isn't darkness?'

'You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence
of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light,
flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing
and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define
the word. In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to
make darkness darker, wouldn't you?'

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester.

'So what point are you making, young man?'

'Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed.'

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time.

'Flawed?  Can you explain how?'

'You are working on the premise of duality,' the student explains. 'You
argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad
God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something
we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought.' 'It uses
electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully
understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be
ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing.
Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it.'

'Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?'

'If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do.'

'Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?'

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

'Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and
cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you
not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a
preacher?'

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided.

'To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean.'

The student looks around the room. 'Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?'

The class breaks out into laughter.

'Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt
the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one
appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of
empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no
brain, with all due respect, sir.' 'So if science says you have no
brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?'

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his
face unreadable. Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man
answers. 'I guess you'll have to take them on faith.'

'Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with
life,' the student continues. 'Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?'

Now uncertain, the professor responds,

'Of course, there is. We see it everyday. It is in the daily example of
man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence
everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but
evil.'

To this the student replied, 'Evil does not exist sir, or at least it
does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is
just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe
the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what
happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's
like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that
comes when there is no light.'

The professor sat down.

My initial questions....

So by what your saying the Christian God is a sadistic power hungry
heathen who is basically playing a game with the lives he has
supposedly created? And I'm supposed to love let alone respect someone
like this? Don't take this as just pure sarcasm, I used to be hard core
christian but I discovered far to many hypocrisies for my full and
undivided faith in the man. So in a sense we've all been created for
God's own amusement? If not then what else are we here for? To
what....love him? So he created a ton of people to love him?
What........ does God have daddy issues and doesn't feel loved enough?
Is he in need of an ego boost?

Aight, so in retrospect, I probably was a little....overly....maybe....just a dick with my questions. Sorry........ but they still stand.


Thoughts, lol?

PHANTOM wrote:

My initial questions....

So by what your saying the Christian God is a sadistic power hungry
heathen who is basically playing a game with the lives he has
supposedly created? And I'm supposed to love let alone respect someone
like this? Don't take this as just pure sarcasm, I used to be hard core
christian but I discovered far to many hypocrisies for my full and
undivided faith in the man. So in a sense we've all been created for
God's own amusement? If not then what else are we here for? To
what....love him? So he created a ton of people to love him?
What........ does God have daddy issues and doesn't feel loved enough?
Is he in need of an ego boost?

My response over at the R6 forum...

CoRNDoG R6 wrote:

God loves life and wished to share that with other forms of creation. Unfortunately, becuase of the decision our first parents made, his plans to have a perfect human race in perfect conditions detoured. But this is still his ultimate plan.

Just like any father with kids would expect, God expects his creation to love him and worship him for what he has given us:

Revelation 4:11 New King James Version (NKJV)
"11You are worthy, O Lord, [fn] To receive glory and honor and power; For You created all things, And by Your will they exist [fn] and were created."

As far as our purpose here in life goes......
Ecclesiastes 12:13 (ESV Online Study Bible)
"13 The end of the matter; all has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man."

But that contradicts its self. So by what your saying Gods plan failed, but he knew that already, but he still allowed it to effect the grand plan? what? That's like me saying "I know what you'll post next" then when you post it i say again "AHA, I knew you were gonna say that!"

Gods plan didnt fail, his original intent was only derailed by the actions of his once perfect creation. As soon as Satan seperated mankind from its creator, Gods plans were put on hold, but he immediately took actions to correct Satan's wrong doing. He directed the following words to Satan:

Genesis 3:15 (New International Version)
And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel."

The above text states that there would be a rivalry through out the years between "the woman", God's servants, and the serpent, Satan's followers.

Satan would "strike at the heel", meaning he would inflict a "non threatening wound" when he killed Gods son here on earth. But the descendant of the woman, Jesus, now resurrected as king, would "crush his head" by destroying him completely in Armaggedon. And then taking actions to restore Gods original plan back into place.

As far as allowing it to happen, it was very much important for God to let things play out the way they did. To answer the greatest question of all.....

I wouldnt say satan made anyone drift apart, Mans own free will is what drove God and humans apart. God made humans with the ability to do whatever they want, he didnt want a bunch of robots flowing everything he has to say exactly to a T. He'd rather us be able to choose our own paths

Ok, we can say Satan mis-lead them then. Up until his persuasive words, Adam and Eve seemed to do pretty good about staying away from the tree God had told them not to eat from. But when Satan, in the form of a serpent, mislead them, out of there own free will, Eve and Adam decided to listen to his words instead of God's.

So as a result, we can "atleast" say that Satan aided in mankinds drifting apart from God.

OH well certainly no one is disputing that fact lol I didnt read the top posting so im not quite too sure what is being discussed here, however Im going to post in a bit about what my personal religious views are. heheh

The absence of God is evil.... It makes as much sense to me as two plus two. Only i follow the belief of there being no God. Only the cosmic vastness of good that can be perpetuated by the human body, mind and spirit in conjunction with the rest of the universe. Man can be tantamount to any Diety upon realization of unlimited capabilities presented through true selfless human acts. To sum it up, man is the true basis for God, good and evil. These are just mi own thoughts and beliefs everyone. Long Live Man

SillyStrife wrote:The absence of God is evil.... It makes as much sense to me as two plus two. Only i follow the belief of there being no God. Only the cosmic vastness of good that can be perpetuated by the human body, mind and spirit in conjunction with the rest of the universe. Man can be tantamount to any Diety upon realization of unlimited capabilities presented through true selfless human acts. To sum it up, man is the true basis for God, good and evil. These are just mi own thoughts and beliefs everyone. Long Live Man

Ahaha, +1